IMPORTS VS DOMESTICS!!!

[Quality_Shit]

LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

hahahah just kidding

K I just want to see after this years terrace bay tragedies lol.. how people feel about things.


I want everyones actual opinions on what they would choose with regards to performance applications. Taking into consideration streetability, drag racing, road racing, styling cues, and last but not least BANG FOR BUCK.

I want opinions and no bitching and moaning about things.

If you got something stupid to say to someone ...shut the fuck up! just state your opinion and back it up with WHY and Facts...not...

"my durtbik fstr thn tat pece of grbge" And no fucking redneck comments about how imports suck because they are missing 4 cylinders.
I want facts and evidence. I been bored and work and want something interesting to check out when im trying to get my mind straight after staring at debt ratio screens for 4 hours straight.

What would you choose and why?

[Berger]

This topic has been beat down so many times and no one ever gives a straight answer. Myself i would go with the imports if i had the money to do anything which will happen one day, and it will be a toyota supra between 1993-2002. Just for the simple fact that the 2JZ engine can hold a 1000hp on the stock bottom end. There's also alot of aftermarket support for the supra's well any import really but the more popular ones have way more.
Also its been proven many times by www.wotm.com that the supra can kick the shit out of alot of cars and also fixed up bikes. and another reason is because its a sic car to begin with.
I think that if my first car was a domestic then i would think differently but it wasn't so i do love the imports but for now i'm driving a dodge..

here's some videos to back up the supra top even though most people know what its capable of.

dyno of his new supra:

Streetfire

first pass in his new supra: he lets off also:

Streetfire

and one more lol:

Streetfire

[Quality_Shit]

Ok but you did not take into consideration MONEY INVOLVED!!!!

If everyone had 75K to build a car ...then a lot of ppl would have supras...and thats not a nice streetable car it barely holds a sticky track with full slicks. READ THE ORIGINAL POST!!! take into consideration the other options!

[Twitch]

hmm, for a 10-15K build...DD/Trackstar(Road AND Strip) I'd build a Domestic. Fiero or something for the do-all racing machine. S10 Turbo for DD and Strip.

[revhard]

you cant take money into consideration.. its a known fact domestics are way cheaper to build. there just big mass produced engines. imports are going to be more expensive. its all the engenearing and design to make engines 1/4 of the size produce the same hp.

im just going to take all the guess work out of this for everyone and post this rite off consumer reports web site. take a read its worth it..

yes i know these are new domestics but the older ones were worse (obviously) cars dont get worse as time progresses. its just a symbol of american muslte. thats why muscle cars are cool.

Used cars to avoid

These models have piled up below-average records of reliability.
Audi A3 '06, ’08; A4 (4-cyl.) ’99-05; A4 (V6) '99, '01, ’03; A6 (V6) '00-03, ’08; A6 Allroad ’01-04; A8 ’04-05; Q7 ’07; S4 ’01; TT '01
BMW 3 Series (AWD) '01, ’08; 3 Series (RWD) ’00; 3 Series (turbo, AWD) ’07; 5 Series (6-cyl.) ’08; 5 Series (V8) '99-03, ’07-08; 7 Series ’99-01; X3 ’08; X5 (6-cyl.) '01-02, ’07-08; X5 (V8) '01, '03-04, '06-08
Buick Century '00, ’02; Enclave (AWD) ’08; Rendezvous ’02-03; Rendezvous (AWD) ’04-06; Terraza '05-06
Cadillac CTS '03, ’05-08; DeVille ’99-03; DTS ’08; Eldorado ’99; Escalade ’07-08; Seville ’01-03; SRX ’04-08; STS (V6) ’06-08; STS (V8) '05-06
Chevrolet Astro ’99-05; Avalanche ’03-06; Aveo '04-05, ’07; Blazer ’99-04; Cobalt sedan ’06; Colorado ’04; Colorado (4WD) ’05-07; Corvette ’05-08; Equinox '05, ’07; Express '99-03, ’05; HHR ’06; Impala (V6) '00-02, ’05-06; Impala (V8) ’06-07; Lumina ’00; Malibu (V6) ’99-04; Malibu Maxx '04-05, ’07; Monte Carlo (V6) '99-02, '04, ’06; S-10 (4WD) ’99-04; Silverado 1500 (V6, 2WD) '05, ’07-08; Silverado 1500 (V6, 4WD) ’05-06; Silverado 1500 (V8, 4WD) ’03-06; Silverado 2500 (2WD) ’04; Silverado 2500 (4WD) '03, ’08; Silverado 2500 (turbodiesel, 4WD) '03, ’07-08; Suburban '99, '03-05, ’07-08; Tahoe '99, '05, ’07; TrailBlazer (6-cyl.) ’06; TrailBlazer (V8) '02-03, ’06-08; Uplander ’05-07; Venture '99-03, '05
Chrysler 300 (V6) ’07-08; 300 (V8) ’06; Crossfire ’04; LHS ’99; Pacifica '04, ’07-08; PT Cruiser (nonturbo) ’02-04; PT Cruiser (turbo) ’03-06; Sebring convertible '01-04, ’08; Sebring coupe ’01; Sebring sedan (4-cyl.) '02, ’04; Sebring sedan (V6) '01-02, '04, ’07; Town & Country (FWD) '01-05, ’07-08; Town & Country (AWD) ’99-05; Voyager (4-cyl.) ’02-03; Voyager (V6) '01-03
Dodge Avenger ’08; Caravan (4-cyl.) '02-03, ’05; Caravan (V6) '01-05, ’07; Charger (V6) ’06; Dakota ’06-07; Dakota (4WD) '01, ’05; Durango ’99-02; Grand Caravan (FWD) '01-05, ’07-08; Grand Caravan (AWD) ’99-05; Intrepid '99, '02, ’04; Magnum ’05; Magnum (V8) ’06; Neon '99-00, ’02-03; Nitro ’07-08; Ram 1500 ’99-00; Ram 1500 (4WD) '01-02, ’06-07; Ram 2500 (4WD) ’03-04; Ram 2500 (turbodiesel, 4WD) '04, ’06-08; Ram van/wagon ’00-01; Stratus coupe ’01; Stratus sedan (4-cyl.) '99, '02, ’04; Stratus sedan (V6) '01, '02, '04
Ford Econoline '04, ’06; Excursion '01, ’03-05; Expedition ’03; Explorer '02-04, ’06; Explorer (V6, 4WD) ’05; Explorer (V8, 4WD) ’08; Explorer Sport Trac (V8) ’07; F-250 (4WD) ’05-06; F-250 (turbodiesel 2WD) ’05; F-250 (turbodiesel 4WD) ’03-08; Focus hatchback '00, ’02; Focus sedan ’00; Focus wagon '01-02, ’04; Freestar '04, ’06; Mustang (V8) ’06; Ranger (2WD) ’08; Taurus ’99; Thunderbird ’02; Windstar '99-01, '03
GMC Acadia ’07-08; Canyon ’04; Canyon (4WD) ’05-07; Envoy ’06; Envoy (V8) '02-03, ’07-08; Jimmy ’99-01; S-15 Sonoma (4WD) ’99-04; Safari ’99-05; Savana '99-03, ’05; Sierra 1500 (V6, 2WD) '05, ’07-08; Sierra 1500 (V6, 4WD) ’05-06; Sierra 1500 (V8, 4WD) ’03-06; Sierra 2500 (2WD) ’04; Sierra 2500 (4WD) '03, ’08; Sierra 2500 (turbodiesel 4WD) '03, ’07-08; Yukon XL '99, '03-05, ’07-08; Yukon '99, '05, '07
Honda Passport '99-00, '02
Hummer H3 '06-07
Hyundai Accent ’01; Entourage ’07; Sonata (4-cyl.) ’02; Sonata (V6) ’00; Tiburon ’03; XG300 '01
Isuzu Rodeo '99-00, ’02; Trooper '01
Jaguar S-Type '00, ’02-03; XJ Series ’01; XK Series ’07; X-Type '02, '04
Jeep Commander ’06-07; Grand Cherokee ’99-08; Liberty (V6) ’06-08; Wrangler '06-08
Kia Amanti ’04; Sedona ’02-06; Sorento ’03-05; Spectra '03, '05
Land Rover Discovery '99, ’03-04; LR2 ’08; LR3 ’05-06; Range Rover ’06; Range Rover Sport '06
Lincoln Aviator ’03-05; LS '00, ’04-05; MKX (AWD) ’07; Navigator '03-05, '07
Mazda B-Series (2WD) ’08; CX-7 ’07; Millenia ’01; MPV ’02; RX-8 ’04-05; 6 sedan (V6) ’03; Mazdaspeed6 '06
Mercedes-Benz C-Class (4-cyl.) ’05; C-Class (V6, RWD) '01, '04, ’07; CLK ’05-06; CLS ’06; E-Class (turbodiesel) ’05; E-Class (V6, AWD) '01-02, ’06-07; E-Class (V6, RWD) ’08; E-Class (V8) '03, '05, ’07; GL-Class ’08; GL-Class (V8) ’07; M-Class (turbodiesel) ’08; M-Class (V6) '01, ’04-06; M-Class (V8) ’06; R-Class ’06; S-Class (V8) '00, ’04; SL '03, ’05; SLK '06
Mercury Grand Marquis ’08; Monterey '04, ’06; Mountaineer '02-04, ’06; Mountaineer (V6, 4WD) ’05; Mountaineer (V8, 4WD) ’08; Sable ’99; Villager '99
Mini Cooper convertible ’05; Cooper convertible S ’06; Cooper hatchback '02-03, ’05; Cooper hatchback S '03, '05-06
Mitsubishi Montero '01
Nissan Armada '04-05, ’07; Pathfinder '05, ’08; Quest '01-02, ’04-06; Titan (4WD) ’04-05; Versa sedan '07
Oldsmobile Alero '99-02, ’04; Aurora ’01-02; Bravada '99-00, ’02; Intrigue ’99; Silhouette '99-03
Plymouth Breeze ’99; Neon '99-00
Pontiac Aztek ’01-04; Bonneville '00-02, ’05; G6 (V6) ’05-08; Grand Am '99-03, ’05; Grand Prix ’99-03; GTO ’06; Montana '99-03, ’05; Montana SV6 ’05-06; Solstice (nonturbo) ’06-07; Solstice (turbo) '07-08
Porsche 911 '04, ’07; Porsche Cayenne '04-06, '08
Saab 9-3 ’03-06; 9-3 convertible '00, '03-04, ’06; 9-5 '99-05
Saturn Aura XE (V6) ’08; Ion coupe '05, ’07; L-Series (V6) '00-01, ’03-04; Outlook ’07-08; Relay ’05-07; Sky ’07; Sky (turbo) ’08; Vue (4-cyl., AWD) ’03; Vue (FWD) '03, ’08; Vue (V6, AWD) '02-06, ’08; Vue Green Line (hybrid) '07
Suzuki Grand Vitara ’06; XL-7 '07
Toyota Camry (V6) '08
Volkswagen Cabrio '99, ’01-02; Eos ’07; Golf ’02-03; GTI (turbo) '02-03, ’06-07; Jetta (4-cyl.) '99-00, '03, ’05; Jetta (turbo) '01-04, ’06; Jetta (V6) '00-01, ’03; New Beetle ’99-07; Passat (FWD) '99-04, ’06-07; Passat (V6, AWD) '00-01, ’07; Touareg '04-06, '08
Volvo S40/V50 ’06; S40/V40 (turbo) ’00; S80 (6-cyl., FWD) '99-00, ’03; V70 (AWD) ’04; V70 (FWD) ’01; XC70 '99-01, ’08; XC90 (6-cyl.) ’03-07; XC90 (V8) '06




Consumer Reports’ “Best of the Best” vehicles list, which is derived from “Good Choices”, includes vehicles that have performed well in CR’s road tests and have had several years of better-than-average reliability according to survey respondents. Models from Acura, BMW, Buick, Honda, Infiniti, Lexus, Lincoln, Mazda, Nissan, Pontiac, Porsche, Scion, Subaru, Toyota, and Volvo appear on the “Best of the Best” list (see chart below).



Vehicles that have had multiple years of much worse than average reliability earned a spot on the “Worst of the Worst” list. The models below from Buick, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Dodge, GMC, Jeep, Kia, Land Rover, Lincoln, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saturn, and Volkswagen consistently had more problems than other models overall (see chart below).





i mean like. what do you say about that.. are you going to say consumer reports is wrong.......



Best and worst used cars

The most reliable models and the ones to avoid

Last reviewed: April 2009
Value-minded consumers know that buying a reliable used car is often the best choice but that finding one takes research. Here we identify the proven Best of the Best in nine categories. They're vehicles with multiple years of above-average reliability, covering 1999 through 2008, that scored well in our tests when new.
Toyota and Honda vehicles dominated the majority of the nine categories, demonstrating consistent reliability and performance. But some recent domestic models are also worthy choices, including the Buick Lucerne (V8), Ford Fusion, and Mercury Milan.
Reliability data are derived from our Annual Auto Survey, which generated responses about more than 1.4 million new and used vehicles. The Best of the best and Worst of the worst are based on our larger lists of Reliable used cars and Used cars to avoid (both available to subscribers). These comprehensive lists give you a rundown of all the models that were found, from our data, to be above or below average in reliability. Owners reported on any serious problems they had had with their cars, minivans, SUVs, and pickup trucks in the previous year. For advice on shopping for a used car, see our used car buying guide.
To minimize the risks, look for vehicles that have proved to be reliable. The following lists of models from 1999 through 2008 will steer you to the gems (and away from the duds) among the thousands of used vehicles on the market.
Best of the best

Small cars


Honda Civic
Honda Civic

The Honda Civic is reliable, economical, and fun to drive. It grew with the 2001 redesign, and 2003 saw the introduction of the Hybrid model. The 2006 redesign included standard antilock brakes (ABS), curtain air bags, and a better ride. An alternative with more cargo room is the Scion xB, which also has standard electronic stability control.
Other good choices:

• Toyota Echo
• Scion xB
• Toyota Corolla
• Toyota Matrix
• Pontiac Vibe
• Mazda3
• Mazda Protege
• Subaru Impreza

Family cars

Honda Accord

The Accord has been a very reliable used-car choice. The 2003 redesign made it quieter and more agile, and it received standard ABS. Standard ESC arrived on V6 models in 2006 and on all models with the 2008 redesign. The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan have very good reliability, tested well, and are very affordable.
Other good choices:

• Toyota Prius
• Ford Fusion
• Mercury Milan
• Toyota Camry (except '08 V6)
• Subaru Outback (6-cyl.)
• Nissan Altima

Upscale cars

Lexus ES

The ES has been very reliable through its many generations. This quiet and comfortable sedan was redesigned in 1997 and 2002 but got a stronger, more fuel-efficient engine in 2004. ESC became standard in 2007. The Acura TL and TSX are sportier alternatives.
Other good choices:

• Lexus IS
• Toyota Avalon
• Acura TSX
• Lincoln MKZ, Zephyr (FWD)
• Infiniti G20
• Acura TL
• Infiniti I30, I35
• Infiniti G35 (sedan)
• Volvo S60
• Buick Lucerne (V8)
• Nissan Maxima

Luxury cars

Infiniti M35

Since 2003 the M has been a reliable model, but the 2006 redesign made it comfortable when cruising the highway and on twisty roads. The V6 is strong, and the interior is well finished. The Lexus LS is a more luxurious choice.
Other good choices

• Lexus LS
• Lexus GS (6-cyl., RWD)
• Acura RL

Sports and sporty cars


Mazda Miata
Mazda Miata

The slick shifter, nimble handling, and good performance make the affordable and reliable Miata fun to drive. ABS became standard with the 2006 redesign; look for the optional ABS on older models. A practical alternative is the Subaru WRX, which gives great performance along with standard AWD and four doors.
Other good choices

• Lexus SC
• Honda S2000
• Toyota Camry Solara
• Acura RSX
• Toyota Celica
• Scion tC
• BMW Z3, Z4
• Acura Integra
• Porsche Boxster
• BMW M3
• Subaru Impreza WRX/STi
• Ford Mustang (V6)
• Nissan 350Z

Minivans


Toyota Sienna
Toyota Sienna

Toyota's first-generation Sienna is refined, but the third-row accommodations are snug. In 2003 a redesigned Sienna went on sale. It is roomier and more powerful, and it's available with AWD. Reliability has been very good overall. The Honda Odyssey isn't as plush but has better handling.
Another good choice:

• Honda Odyssey

Small SUVs


Toyota RAV4
Toyota RAV4

Introduced in 1996, the RAV4 was the first car-based SUV. It was agile and comfortable but small and underpowered. The 2001 redesign brought more power and a roomier interior. ESC arrived in 2004. For 2006 Toyota added an available third row. Throughout its life the RAV4 has had stellar reliability.
Other good choices:

• Honda CR-V
• Subaru Forester
• Mitsubishi Outlander

Midsized and large SUVs

Honda Pilot

Introduced in 2003, the Pilot is roomier than its MDX sibling and less expensive. It's roomy and refined, delivers good fuel economy, and has flexible seating for eight. Crash-test results are impressive, and reliability has been excellent. The Toyota Highlander is a good choice with an optional third-row seat.
Other good choices:

• Toyota Highlander
• Lexus RX
• Toyota Land Cruiser
• Toyota 4Runner
• Infiniti FX35
• Acura MDX
• Infiniti QX4
• Lexus GX
• Hyundai Santa Fe
• Subaru Tribeca
• Nissan Xterra ('05-08)
• Toyota Sequoia

Pickup trucks


Honda Ridgeline
Honda Ridgeline

Honda's pickup rides and handles like a sedan but delivers the utility of a truck. The V6 engine is smooth and responsive, and the cabin is nicely detailed and easy to access. The in-bed, weather-tight, and lockable trunk is a plus. Opt for the Tundra if you need more towing or off-roading capability.
Other good choices:

• Toyota Tacoma ('05-08)
• Toyota Tundra
• Subaru Baja
• Nissan Frontier ('05-08)

Worst of the worst

These have multiple years of much-worse-than-average reliability among 1999 to 2008 models. Listed alphabetically.
Audi A6 Allroad
Audi A8
BMW X5 (V8)
Buick Rendezvous (AWD)
Cadillac SRX
Chevrolet Blazer
Chevrolet Colorado (4WD)
Chevrolet S-10 (4WD)
Chevrolet Uplander
Chevrolet Venture
Chrysler Pacifica
Chrysler Sebring convertible
Chrysler Town & Country (AWD)
Dodge Grand Caravan (AWD)
GMC Canyon (4WD)
GMC Jimmy
GMC S-15 Sonoma (4WD) Jeep Grand Cherokee
Kia Sedona
Land Rover Discovery, LR3
Mazda RX-8
Oldsmobile Bravada
Oldsmobile Silhouette
Pontiac Aztek
Pontiac G6 (V6)
Pontiac Montana, Montana SV6
Porsche Cayenne
Saturn Relay
Volkswagen Cabrio
Volkswagen Jetta (V6)
Volkswagen New Beetle (turbo)
Volkswagen Passat (V6, FWD)
Volkswagen Touareg
Volvo XC90 (6-cyl.)






yea this is big. but it somes this battle all up. i cant find the article but i was reading it at work. it said the top 3 makes are honda, subaru and nissan.. then it says chrysler and dodge where horrible in 08 and even worse now.

[SE-R]

I'd go for a cheap old mustang if its just gonna be for the track.

If a daily driver search for a GTO since the prices have come down alot on those.

[Pepehn]

MUSCLE ALWAYS WINS
lol, uhh if i had to start from scratch and get something decent which i should have done about 5 years ago..lol..i would have a 96-00 Civic CX Hatchback, and I would put a B20Z with a B16 tranny, maybe some boost and some crower 404's...brrr-buurp brrrr-bu...brr brr brrp, slammed, champ white on some work equip's. nice, clean, subtle..cheap.

[Fale2.4]

Toyota 22re. Damn things don't blow up, unless your Kevin.

[xchox]

I'm going with Euro's!

Lindz, that's an amazing post and all. But i'm going off personal experience.

Honda has some of the best reliabilty ratings currently, but I have had nothing but problems with them even the new ones.

Of all the cars I have ever owned the best reliabilty came from my Bronco, my Jetta, and well... one of my Skoda's has over 900,000km's on it (i only drove like 50km's of those).

As for stock, performance wise, 100% of my personal choice goes to the euro department! From the low ballers, VW Golf GTi, Mini Cooper S, etc to the big spenders, Audi R8, 911, Gallardo. Shit, Mercedes makes station wagons which kick domestic and import performance cars in the ass. Volvo makes some insane fast wagons also.

As for tuned performance, it's import. I mean you look in any magazine or catalog and it's ALL Civic Civic Civic. And if you can make a 4 banger do the 1/4 in 10 seconds or less, then you have a monster on your hands.

The benefits of a domestic (in general) is they tend to have more torque so you can still go fast with a full passenger load.

When it comes right down too it... What can possibly top off the following:

Aston Martin DBS
Jaguar XKR
Mercedes CLK 63 AMG

And if you have a huge family buy a Mercedes E63 AMG Estate. Kick most sports cars right out of the water with 6 kids in the back.

Yeah I know what your thinking... $$$... so go buy a BMW 135i with 300BHP RWD

All these cars spank on the track, feel like limos on the biggest bumps, heated/cooled seats, superior audio inside, and no one will laugh when you tell them what you drive. Something not many Import or Domestic cars can do all in one package!

[neeman77]

I would still go with a mild turbo/supercharger build on an import, as you get relatively good straight line performance while keeping handling, esthetics and creature comforts. A mild build can be done on a relatively low budget setup and still perform very well. Straight line speed, domestics every time, everything else I'd go import.

[HAYWIRE]

Bottom line.... some dudes like imports some like domestics and some like other dudes........done and done............Lorne......fyi me likes chevys

[neeman77]

Yep, I have respect for anyone who puts time into their car, whatever it may be.

[Dorkage]

That list that Lindsey put up, how do they calculate that? My car was mentioned as the worst several times, yet it has had like one recall, no mechanical failures, and drives nicer then any other car I have used around it's price point. The engine in it is pretty rock solid and a simple design. The only electrical problem I have had is with a bad ground that I put in. Even on the Vortex forum you don't see many people having issues with it... I don't get it.

Anyways... After I my Jetta, I am never getting another domestic, especially after the coils were installed on the weekend. :P

[xchox]

Hey Dorkage, same as mine... No problems!

[TyloR]

you guys are lucky, I've had nothing but problems with the civic... upper ball joints were worn, lower control arm bushings were shot, tie rods loose, even the sway bar bushings were looking kinda bad. but hay, what do you want after 230000Km and 14 years on the original suspension, 3 years of witch were with the extra 200lb h22. also since I've owned it I've beat it like a red headed step child.

[revhard]

Originally Posted by TyloR

you guys are lucky, I've had nothing but problems with the civic... upper ball joints were worn, lower control arm bushings were shot, tie rods loose, even the sway bar bushings were looking kinda bad. but hay, what do you want after 230000Km and 14 years on the original suspension, 3 years of witch were with the extra 200lb h22. also since I've owned it I've beat it like a red headed step child.

good thing i read the rest of your post.. i was going to be like are you serious, your cars like 15 years old lol, and the wrong engine is in it lol.

[Philis09]

I would go with import myself. After owning 2 Nissan Maximas (93 & 98) I haven't had any problems with them, they've been amazing to drive, gas mileage is great. If I had the resources to do so, I would scout for a (98 VQ30DE motor) and build up a better ride.

[ride_red199]

yeah i would go with import myself also , i love my nissan tittan its a great ride , great power , surprising the gas mileage is pretty good , overall very satisfied with nissan , my mom has a 09 nissan rogue and the thing is amazing on gas and still pretty quick for a small motor , but i still love my Chevy's tho

[Dorkage]

Originally Posted by xchox

Hey Dorkage, same as mine... No problems!

I know! Sell me your grille already! Mine is all scratched from when a drunk lady backed into me... I'll get just the body shop to put the black one on instead.

[250]

Mike, your a shit disturber

Everyone knows imports rule